About fermented foods like mushrooms:L00K please!

[mjbonsais]

http://www.dldewey.com/columns/foodsnof.htm

Boy, I love my coffee too and it's on the list.

I am learning so very much and always want to share.

hugs

Mary Jo
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[aklap]

Thanks Mary Jo!

Eeek, Kinda scary!
_________________
Al

“We cannot all do great things, but we can do small things with great love.” Mother Teresa

[mjbonsais]

Not intended to scare but what an eye opener it is.

Have a wonderful weekend. Probably stormy here with Dennis to the south of us.
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[Chris]

Uhh, I wouldn't read too much into that article...Don't eat vinegar? Don't eat sugar? Don't eat mushrooms? Some things in there were true, but most of it was just ridiculous. Just the fact that there are typos, grammatical errors, and spelling mistakes discredits it. By the way, the purpose for refrigerating is to stop things from spoiling and to stop the growth of bacteria. And a little bacteria is good for us, ya know. I very much urge everyone to forget anything read in that article (except for maybe the last paragraph on hydrogenated trans-fats, which by the way was highly dramaticized.) Most of us struggle with our diets, and introducing this into this forum will just make some people worry and struggle more about what they can eat. So please ignore it.

Chris

[mjbonsais]

I am one of those people. Are you a doctor or phd affiliate? I don't mean to be offensive as you appear to be and I'll let the leader here on the board make the final ruling to completely discredit the reading. It was merely put here for information and if you feel you cannot learn or help your health with the information- so be it. You will find much of the same information when googling search on yeast offending foods.

I have yeast, egg, milk, gluten and am awaiting further testing results of other intolerances I have. The fact of the matter is, much of the processed foods we consume here in the US are harmful. Just your accepting the last paragraph of the writer's comments about hydrogenated oils speaks for itself.

Many of us have yeast intolerance issues too. Yeast is in vinegar which is in catsup, pickles, mustard to name just a few. Mushroom is another food item many of us cannot tolerate. Also corn is a biggie for many of us and you should do a google on that issue alone and you'll see for yourself.

I just had my annual checkup and my dr. suggested the coffee issue to me as well because I need to take prilosec for that very reason. I have no gall bladder so constant bile drip into stomach. Coffee is an irritant and it is also by Dr. Fine from enterolab who is a gastroenterologist/researcher into MC and CD along with gluten sensitivity. Not only would he suggest these but he also suggests low oxylated diet. Check out his website finerhealth.com









Slide 6 of 15
Here are 14 foods that hold the potential for causing food sensitivity problems. For many years we have been aware of cow's milk and dairy foods being right under gluten in terms of ability to stimulate these reactions. Recent research has shown that dietary yeast, Saccharomyces cerevisiae, the kind of yeast you add to bread, you make beer out of, alcohol, vinegar, etc., seems to actually underlie the immune reaction of Crohn's disease, a disease we haven't known the cause of for the 100 years it's been known. Corn. Specifically corn, although the other grains can cause food sensitivity as well. You have to understand, that the four gluten-containing grains (wheat, barley, rye, and oats) are not totally exclusive from the other grains with respect to their phylogeny, how they are related to these other species; they are cousins, if you will, closely related. I like to remind people that eating grains is eating grass seeds. That's what grain is, a hybridized, cultivated grass that 10,000 years ago became a food. The seeds come out, you pulverize them, and you make food out of them. Citrus fruits. Especially for arthritis, chronic diarrhea, or gastroesophageal acid reflux. Beef and pork of the meats tend to be the most immune stimulating. Soy. A plant high in protein, although not tolerated by all, especially the immune sensitive person. And peanuts. Soy and peanuts are related in that they are both legumes; they are beans. Other legumes can potentially cause problems. Why do you pass gas from them? Because they are not very well digested. They cause a lot of symptoms. They cause pain, and many people react to them. Eggs. The old research showing that gluten sensitive individuals reacted frequently to cow's milk often showed similar reactions occurred to eggs. Nightshades. They include tomatoes, potatoes, eggplant, and cayenne hot red peppers. Due to a peculiarity of their chemical substrates, they too have been linked to arthritis and other immune-activated states. Tree nuts. These are wonderful for your health and prevent heart attacks by lowering cholesterol, but they can, because of their nature, be allergenic and immunogenic. Try to find one or two for you that don't seem to cause symptoms, because nuts are great. Eating protein and fat when you are eating carbohydrates smoothes out the effect of the carbohydrates, avoids the mental anguish and crankiness and tiredness that occurs with carbohydrates.

High protein. This is a popular diet in America right now, but in my opinion an undesirable diet for anyone, and especially problematic for people with chronic immune disorders. Because the immune system reacts to foreign proteins coming into our bodies, and all dietary proteins are foreign in this way, those prone to more frequent or stronger immune reactions need to limit their intake of high protein foods. For the most part, that is what the 14 foods listed above really are: high protein foods. So, you don't want to overdo it on protein foods. One note of interest; fish is not on this list. Fish, although a high protein food, can actually prevent immune reactions in some people because of the immune-suppressive effects of fish oil. But if you eat too much fish, the stimulating effect of the protein may overcome the beneficial effect of the oil. That is why fish oil is sometimes given as a supplement/medication in capsules.

Protein bars. I was at a health club today, and this is what they had on the counter as I walked in: "25% off any box of Protein Bar. Great tasting energy bar. Cookies and Cream." How could that be a health food? Unfortunately, this is a fad food now. These are new foods, previously uninvented and unheard of. Protein bars, I promise you, will go. When they were first invented, they probably tasted horrible, and they were created purely for function, bad as it is. People thought they needed protein. Now, they have evolved to Cookies and Cream. Plus, most of it is actually cow's milk protein, what they call "whey protein". I recommend you avoid this protein and these protein bars. The same holds true for protein milkshakes and other such supplements.

Finally, it turns out that oxalate, a simple, otherwise non-toxic organic compound found in some foods, mainly vegetables and some fruit, may be one of the contributors if not the main cause of pain in a common syndrome called fibromyalgia. Fibromyalgia mainly causes trigger point pain in multiple muscles, and seems to affect the same group of muscles in different people, classically those around the neck, shoulders, and head. Although commonly accompanying arthritis and other immune disorders, fibromyalgia is not itself thought to be associated with immune or autoimmune reactivity because the muscles are not inflamed on biopsies. I have suffered with arthritis in my back and associated fibromyalgia for many years. I first suspected a role of oxalate in fibromyalgia when I discovered that when I ate spinach, chard, kale, and these real deep greens that I knew contained alot of oxalate, I would get bad trigger point pain and tightness in my shoulders, trapezii, and neck, all of which would cause bad headaches. Furthermore, I would get what I jokingly call "crispy"; various joints became achy and would audibly "crack" frequently, especially in my spine and hips. Even joints that normally did not trouble me, like rib joints, would become achy when I ate these foods. All of these symptoms would resolve when I removed these foods from my diet, and would recur when I reintroduced them. All of this suggested to me a possible role of oxalate in fibromyalgia and I began to research the medical literature on oxalate. Although I did not find any reported association with fibromyalgia, I did find reports of an inherited disorder called congenital hyperoxalosis that allows too much oxalate to enter the body, consequently causing oxalate kidney stones and crystalline arthritis (from oxalate crystal formation and deposition in joints). I had also been aware of patients with Crohn's disease and other forms of chronic fat malabsorption (including celiac sprue) who absorbed too much oxalate from their intestine causing mainly kidney stones. If oxalate is involved in fibromyalgia, as it seems to be, it may be from microscopic deposition of these crystals in the muscle and/or tendon tissues. For many years, people with oxalate kidney stones and congenital hyperoxalosis have been prescribed low-oxalate diets; now people with fibromyalgia may want to consider this as well. In addition to the improvement I have received from avoiding all of the 14 foods mentioned above, limiting the amount of oxalate in my diet, and particularly avoiding the foods containing the highest amount of oxalate, has helped me. In terms of which foods contain high, intermediate, or low amounts of oxalate, there are too many to list. However, there is a Website that contains this list: www.branwen.com/rowan/oxalate.htm It turns out that this website, which I was told about serendipitously in an email from a former patient with celiac sprue and oxalate kidney stones, is actually dedicated to providing information and support to people with fibromyalgia. So apparently someone else has made this oxalate-fibromyalgia connection.

Next Slide

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The Low Oxalate Diet

This list was adapted from The Low Oxalate Cookbook published by The Vulvar Pain Foundation. This cookbook is a necessity for anyone following the low oxalate diet. It includes recipes, tips, guidelines, and other information about low oxalate eating.

Foods marked with * may cause irritation although they are not high in oxalate. It may be best to avoid these at first. If a food has been listed as both low and medium in different tests, it is listed only in the medium group. If a food has been listed as both medium and high in different tests, it is listed in the medium group and indicated by the notation "(?high)" as well as being listed in the high group. Foods with double question marks (i.e. ?Pumpkin?) have not been tested, but anecdotal evidence seems to imply oxalate content or irritation potential.

You may want to eat only low oxalate foods at first until your symptoms begin to improve. Then, you can add medium oxalate foods one at a time, eating a small amount three days in a row. If your pain does not increase, you may add that food to your diet as a medium oxalate food.

Eat only two servings a day from the medium group. All servings are 1/2 cup unless otherwise indicated. It is not a good idea to try to eliminate all oxalate from your diet because your body will just manufacture more. Moderate consumption is necessary. Of course, you must eliminate the high oxalate foods from your diet completely.

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BEVERAGES


Low Oxalate


Medium Oxalate


High Oxalate
Barley water
Cider
Coke*
Coca-Cola*
Distilled alcohol*
Fruit juices (4 oz)
  Apple
  Grapefruit*
  Lemon*
  Lime*
  Pineapple
Gingerale (Schwepp’s)
Kukicha twig tea
Lemonade or limeade
  (made without peel)*
Milk 
Orange soda (Minute Maid)*
Pepsi*
Pepsi-Cola*
Pineapple juice
Root beer (Borg’s and A&W)
Bigelow herbal teas-
  (hot, brew time 4 min)
    Cranberry Apple
    Cozy Chamomile
    Purely Peppermint
    Apple & Spice
    Chamomile Mint
    Cinnamon Orange
    Hibiscus & Rose Hips
  (iced, brew time 10 min)
    Red Raspberry
    Tahitian Breeze
    Perfect Peach
    Raspberry Royale
Water
Wine* - port, red, rose, dry, sherry, white
Beer (Budweiser) (12 oz)*
Beer, draft (12 oz)* 
Beer, stout (Guiness draft) (12 oz)*
Coffee*
Fruit juices (4 oz)
  Cranberry*
  Grape
  Orange*
  Tomato*
Orangeade (4 oz)*
Tea, rosehip
Bigelow herbal teas
(hot, brew time 4 min)
    Lemon & C
    Spearmint
(iced, brew time 10 min)
    Premium
V-8 Juice*
Wine, Beaujolais*
Beer - lager draft, Tuborg, Pilsner
Chocolate milk
Cocoa
Juices containing berries high in oxalates
Ovaltine
Tea, black, Indian
Bigelow herbal teas
  (hot, brew time 4 min)
    Apple Orchard
    Fruit & Almond
    I Love Lemon
    Mint Medley
    Orange Spice
    Perfect Peach
    Red Raspberry
    Specially Strawberry
    Sweet Dreams
    Take-A-Break
    Orange & C

CONDIMENTS

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Basil, fresh (1 tsp)
Chives
Dill
Mustard, Dijon (1 tbsp)
Nutmeg, dry (1 tsp)
Oregano, dried (1 tsp)
Salt
Vanilla extract
Vinegar*
Basil, fresh (1 tbsp)
Cinnamon (1 tsp)
Dill (1 tbsp)
Ginger, raw, sliced (1 tsp)
Malt, powder (1 tbsp)
Mustard, Dijon (1/2 cup)
Nutmeg (1 tbsp)
Pepper (1 tsp)
Soy sauce (?high)
Cinnamon, ground (1½ tsps or more)
Pepper (in excess of 1 tsp per day)
Ginger (1 tbsp)
Soy sauce

DAIRY

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Butter
Buttermilk
Cheese
Milk
Yogurt
Natural, nonfat, plain
Dannon, Fruit-on-the-Bottom yogurts (except orange)
none listed
none listed

FATS

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Butter
Margarine
Mayonnaise (Heintz)
Salad dressing
Vegetable oils
none listed
none listed

FRUITS

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Apples, peeled
Avocado
Cherries, bing and sour
Cranberries, canned (Ocean Spray)*
Grapes
Thompson seedless,green
Red
Lemons*
Lemon juice (1 cup)*
Lime juice (1 cup)*
Mangoes
Melons
Cantaloupe
Casaba
Honeydew
Watermelon
Nectarines
Papaya, Hawaiin
Raisins, golden
Apples
Apricots
Berries (1/4 cup)
Blackberries
Blueberries
Dewberries
Red raspberries
Currants, black
Cherries, red sour
Cranberries, dried*
Grapefruit*
Grapes
Oranges*
Peaches, Alberta
Peaches, Hiley, Stokes, canned
Pears, Bartlett
Pineapple, Sainsbury, canned
Pineapple chunks (Dole)
Plums, green or golden Gage, Damson
Prunes, Italian
Tangerines (?high)*
Blackberries
Blueberries
Grapes, Concord
Currants, red
Dewberries
Figs, dried
Gooseberries
Kiwi
Lemon peel
Lime peel
Orange peel
Raspberries, red and black
Rhubarb
Strawberries
Tangerines

GRAINS

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Cornflakes (Kellog's)
Cornstarch (1 tbsp)
Egg noodles
Rice, white
Rice, wild
Rye bread
Bagel (1 medium) (Lender's)
Barley, cooked
Bread, white (2 slices)
Corn tortilla (1 medium)
Cornbread
Cornmeal, yellow (1 cup dry)
Cornstarch (1/4 cup)
English muffin, white (1 medium)
Macaroni, cooked
Oatmeal (¼ cup) (?high)
Rice, brown
Saltine or soda crackers
(16) (Zesta by Keebler)
Spaghetti
Spaghetti in tomato sauce*
Vanilla Wafers (25) (Nabisco)
Wheat or plain flour
Bread, whole wheat
Cheerios (1 cup)
Graham crackers
Graham flour
Grits, white corn
Kamut
Oatmeal
Popcorn (4 cups, popped) (Orville Redenbacher)
Soybean crackers
Spelt
Stone ground flour
Wheat bran
Wheat germ
Whole wheat flour
Yellow Dock

LEGUMES, NUTS, AND SEEDS

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Coconut
Lentils
Water chestnuts


?Cashews?
Garbanzo beans, canned (1/4 cup)
Lima beans
Split peas, cooked
Sunflower seeds, hulled, dry roasted (1 oz) (?high)
Tofu, raw firm (?high)
?Walnuts?
Beans, green, waxed, dried
Baked beans in tomato sauce, canned
Nuts
Peanuts
Pecans
Garbanzo beans, canned
Peanut butter
Sesame seeds
Soybean curd (tofu)
Sunflower seeds
?All soy products?

MEATS

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Bacon (up to 9 strips)
Beef
Chicken
Corned beef, canned
Eggs
Fish, haddock, plaice, and flounder
Ham
Hamburger
Lamb
Pork
Turkey
Bacon (10 or more slices)
Kidney, beef
Liver
Sardines
none listed

SWEETS

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Corn syrup (Karo) (1 tbsp)
Honey (1 tbsp)
Jellies, jams, or preserves made with low and medium fruits (1 tbsp)
Maple syrup, pure (1 tbsp)
Sugar
Sponge cake (1 slice)
Preserves, strawberry (1 tbsp)
Marmalade (1/4 cup)*
Fig Newtons
Fruitcake (1 slice)
Marmalade

VEGETABLES

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Acorn squash
Alfalfa sprouts
Cabbage, white
Cauliflower
Cucumbers, peeled
Green peas, frozen
Lettuce, iceberg (1/2 cup)
Mung bean sprouts
Pepper, red
Turnips, roots
Zucchini squash
Asparagus
Artichokes
Brussel sprouts
Broccoli
Carrots
Corn (sweet, white, or yellow)
Cucumber (1 medium)
Garlic
Green beans, snap, or runner beans (?high)
Kohlrabi
Lettuce
butter
iceberg (1 cup)
Mushrooms
Mustard greens
Onions
Peppers, green (1/2 medium)
Potato chips (50) (Wise Original)
Potatoes, white, russet, Idaho (1/3 cup) (?high)
Potato salad (1/4 cup)
Radishes
Snow peas
Tomato, fresh*
Tomato sauce, canned (1/4 cup)*
Vegetable beef soup* (Campbell's)
Watercress
Beets - tops, roots, greens
Celery
Collards
Dandelion greens
Eggplant
Escarole
Green beans, snap, pod, runner
Kale
Leeks
Okra
Parsley
Parsnips
Peppers, green
Pokeweed
Popcorn (4 cups, popped) (Orville Redenbacher) Potatoes
Potatoes, sweet
?Pumpkin?
Rhubarb
Rutabagas
Sorrel
Spinach
Squash, yellow, summer
Swiss chard
Tomato sauce, canned
Turnip greens
Watercress
Yams
?Pesticides?*

OTHER FOODS

Low Oxalate

Medium Oxalate

High Oxalate
Carob
Gelatin, unflavored (Knox) (1 packet)
Vinegar, apple cider*
Malt (1 tbsp)
No fat ranch dressing (Marzetti's)
Chocolate, plain
Cocoa, dry powder
Ovaltine, powder

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[aklap]

HI Chris,


I havent really "read" it yet, but as with everything...you have to decide what's right for you. No not everything you read can be taken as fact. But some people truly have problems with certain types of foods. Uhhhhh that's why we are here...

I know people with yeast issues that need to stay away from vinegar and other yeast bearing foods. Gluten sensitive need to stay a way from vinegar that is not GF. Diabetics need to watch their sugar.

Food affects us - if we choose to listen to our bodies. There is an old computer saying GIGO - Garbage In Garbage Out. Before I figured out what was causing my problems, I would not have thought food could be so problematic!
_________________
Al

“We cannot all do great things, but we can do small things with great love.” Mother Teresa

[Chris]

I'm really sorry, because I now realize I was harsh...and rude even. I just wanted to balance the information with a warning. It just seemed kind of biased and unfounded, but it might still be useful to people.

Sorry again, and I hope you don't exile me,

Chris

[Jeannine]

xxx

[mjbonsais]

We are all in the same boat ( some of us just have more water in the bilge )< just more food issues. Heck, life is far too short for this and we are still learning from each other anyways. My pcp has opened his eyes to more ways of dx'ing CD or gluten sensitivity since my sojourn with this condition of mine! It is wonderful.

Have a great weekend

MJ
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