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Professor
Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 757
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 Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: Communion, Part II (and tolerance for all) |
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| GFSarahSmiles wrote: | | Professor wrote: |
Actually, in the Catholic Church, the Eucharist reperesents Christ's body to the faithful. Catholic theology is emphatic that is is not just a symbol of his body, or like his body, but actually becomes the body of Christ when it is transformed at the altar. During communion, Catholics consider that they are actually receiving the body and blood of Christ. |
Sweet!!! So if they think the bread/wafer is ACTUALLY the body of Christ once it's in you and therefore you won't get sick if you really believe in Him, then does that also mean that you could drink all the wine you wanted without getting drunk from it??? After all, if you believe, then it's His blood you're drinking, not wine, right?
I'm kinda a Methodist & Baptist hybrid. I'm only playing when I poke fun at what I percieve as the closed-mindedness of Catholic rules. I don't mean to offend anyone. |
Really?
So that makes it okay? Do you also just "play" and "poke fun" of the Jewish faith? Why don't you try that here -- we'll see how that goes over! I don't think one is okay and the other is not.
Or how about other things, like race, sexual orientation, ethnicity, disability, even appearance? I'm not sure where you live, but in most of the world,
"-ism's" (or being an "-ist") are no longer cool (were they ever? Not to a person of color, or a Jew, or a Mexican, or a disabled person, or any of the groups being "poked fun" at).
Do you think anyone was offended by your post?
I'm guessing any practicing Catholic would be, just as you'd be offended if we were to start poking fun at your church. I can't speak for your religion, but for most practicing Catholics, we are there for one reason only -- because we take it seriously.
You said in a later post on this thread that you're a big chicken. Well, it must be only in person, because here online you aren't.
I think the people on this board need to reach an agreement where they don't poke fun at religion, race, disability, ethnicity, or anything else that matters to feeling/thinking people (that would be most of us, I'm sure). That's what most decent human beings do. Pretend it's real life, Sarah, and that we're real people with feelings.
I think that this had to be said. Silence and tolerance are not options in any "-ism's" from racism to sexism and including religions, and I would be a poor excuse for a human being (and a Catholic) if I didn't speak up. In some parts of this country/world, it's still 'cool' to spread intolerance and hatred through racist/sexist/ethnic/religious "jokes," and maybe in your circle it is, but that doesn't make it right.
Well, Al will surely kick me off for this -- actually, I'll go willingly, Al!
But since there's nothing rude or untrue in this post, it ought to stay as a reminder of how to be decent and sensitive to one another.
Ciao. |
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Kathie
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 676
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Well, Al will surely kick me off for this -- actually, I'll go willingly, Al! |
I certainly don't think so, we all are entitled to our opinion (we should however be respectful of the feelings and beliefs of others but too often with this topic that doesn't happen). I have never seen anything like religion or politics to really get people sensitive.
Just a question Lexi, because I honestly wasn't following the whole thread really closely, do you take communion using a host that is not GF? Espescially as you are so strictly GF in your lifestyle?
Disclaimer for TEC: Following is the opinion of the author. I have never met anyone who was cured of CD, I would not personally take communion with a gluten wafer anymore than I would eat the Sacred Buffalo stew at the Native American retreats I used to go to. I choose to believe in the possibility of healing through faith. I also believe in the possiblity of healing through science. This is not intended to insult or try to change the opinion of others who require proof in written form. It is my opinion.
I have to say that I BELIEVE that if one had a strong enough faith that they could take communion with a non-GF wafer and not be glutened. I also believe that if one had enough faith they could cure any illness that they have. Unfortunately I have Known many people of many different religions with a lot more faith then I have and none of them have been able to overcome the obstacles we place in ourselves to reach that level of healing through faith. I have met Ministers, Buddists and Shamans who could channel the healing power of God through them to heal others but can't heal themselves.
I also have to say that I believe that we are a lot more judgemental with each other than God is about this subject and that we are all going to be really surprised when we stand before God and realize that faith was a lot more simple than organized religions would like us to believe. That however is a whole other subject and I don't want to go there and start that one.
Edit, I do have to add that because I don't belong to any specific organized religion (I was raised Baptist) that I have frequently been judged, criticized and condemened because of my beliefs by people who are much better Church goers than I am. I however acknowlege and accept their right to believe in God in whatever manner is right for them. God is about love, its that simple.
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CD by Biopsy 3/25/88
Last edited by Kathie on Wed May 03, 2006 5:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The Edifying Conscience
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 2262
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Kathie wrote: | Just a question Lexi, because I honestly wasn't following the whole thread really closely, do you take communion using a host that is not GF? Espescially as you are so strictly GF in your lifestyle?
I have to say that I BELIEVE that if one had a strong enough faith that they could take communion with a non-GF wafer and not be glutened. I also believe that if one had enough faith they could cure any illness that they have. Unfortunately I have Known many people of many different religions with a lot more faith then I have and none of them have been able to overcome the obstacles we place in ourselves to reach that level of healing through faith. I have met Ministers, Buddists and Shamans who could channel the healing power of God through them to heal others but can't heal themselves.
I also have to say that I believe that we are a lot more judgemental with each other than God is about this subject and that we are all going to be really surprised when we stand before God and realize that faith was a lot more simple than organized religions would like us to believe. That however is a whole other subject and I don't want to go there and start that one. |
Kathie,
If you read the other thread Lexi does mention a source for GF wafers.
Your second paragraph is very similar to the thread that was started a few months ago regarding faith based healing of Celiac Disease. There were hurt feelings on both sides of the arguement and the thread nearly tore this board apart. I have a horrible feeling that this thread is going to go no where good. Perhaps discussions of this type would be better off taking place behind the scenes in PM.
TEC |
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The Edifying Conscience
Joined: 29 Aug 2005
Posts: 2262
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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Al,
Religious issues keep popping up. I sincerely believe that we need a folder entitle 'Religion' for those who want to discuss religion and the rest of us can easily avoid. Can you create a religious folder or shall I PM Admin.
TEC |
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Purrsnikitty
Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 224
Location: Parrish, Florida
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 3:23 pm Post subject: Communion Part II |
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Hey guys - can we all calm down, please and just recognize that the Church (in all her many flavors) is the Bride of Christ. Our wedding dress may a bit tattered at the moment, but His Bride we still are.
I have my own set of issues with Roman Catholic doctrine which is why I left after 31 years, but Roman Catholics are still my brothers and sisters in Christ and, if being faithful means following rules that might not make much sense to those outside that particular fold, well then a generous spirit should prevail over individual opinions. Sorry, the deacon is preaching again; it's a habit  - but bashing the Roman Church accomplishes nothing.
I have enjoyed and learned from this thread and would like to see it keep going - in love and generosity.
_________________
"Rejoice always, pray without ceasing, give thanks in all circumstances; for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you." 1 Thessalonians 5:18 |
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mchess
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 102
Location: Oklahoma
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| Posted: Wed May 03, 2006 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I was too a bit offended by this comment. I am glad lexie spoke up about this. It is true people have different opinions when it comes to religions. I think everyone is entitled to their opinion however when it comes to "poking fun" of other peoples beliefs people really need to consider other peoples feelings.
I dont think that Al or anyone else needs to make a separate folder for religious topics. All post have a subject line if you don't want to read the religious post DON'T.
Originally someone asked a question about the wafers.
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Melissa
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ostrich
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 3727
Location: Nebraska
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: Re: Communion, Part II (and tolerance for all) |
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| Professor wrote: | | I'm guessing any practicing Catholic would be, just as you'd be offended if we were to start poking fun at your church. I can't speak for your religion, but for most practicing Catholics, we are there for one reason only -- because we take it seriously. |
I guess I'm in the minority. I make fun of my own religion all the time in real life because I believe people need to laugh at themselves every now and then. However, I certainly respect other peoples' opinions, and will refrain from such comments here.
This is an interesting thread. Let's keep it going by behaving, ok?
_________________
Ostrich :>--O==={
I lie below, you float above
In the pretty white ships that I am dreaming of |
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cruelshoes
Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 2152
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:10 am Post subject: Re: Communion Part II |
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| Purrsnikitty wrote: | | Hey guys - can we all calm down, please and just recognize that the Church (in all her many flavors) is the Bride of Christ. Our wedding dress may a bit tattered at the moment, but His Bride we still are. |
Look - what irritates me is when people refer to "THE" church. There is not one church - there are many. You have your church and I have mine. My husband is Jewish. If you told him he was the bride of Christ, he'd look at you like you have 3 heads. I am not anybody's bride but my husband's. There are celiacs that are Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Zoroastrian, Druid, and whatever else. I am VERY devout in my religion, but do not ask anybody else to be.
Perhaps if people phrased their comments as "here is how we do it in MY church" rather than talking criticizing how other churches do it, it would work out better.
Just my GF 2 cents.
_________________
-Colleen
Dx 8/05 via bloodwork/biopsy
9-YO son Dx 11/05 via bloodwork/biopsy
Daughters have negative bloodwork - so far!
A woman is like a tea bag-you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water. - Eleanor Roosevelt |
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Torrey
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 869
Location: Hawthorne, NJ
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Thank you, Colleen. I couldn't have said that any better.
I do not follow any organized religion (I am agnostic), but I do not impose my views/beliefs on others.
I feel that whatever one chooses to believe or follow is his/her choice, and it should make him/her happy. I just want you all to know that I support all of you guys in whatever you choose to do in that regard--as long as it works for you and you are happy with it! 
_________________
~Torrey
August 24, 1975
GF BD July 12, 2004 |
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NickisDragon
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 330
Location: S.E. Michigan
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Kathie wrote: | | Quote: | | Well, Al will surely kick me off for this -- actually, I'll go willingly, Al! |
I certainly don't think so, we all are entitled to our opinion (we should however be respectful of the feelings and beliefs of others but too often with this topic that doesn't happen). I have never seen anything like religion or politics to really get people sensitive.
Just a question Lexi, because I honestly wasn't following the whole thread really closely, do you take communion using a host that is not GF? Espescially as you are so strictly GF in your lifestyle?
Disclaimer for TEC: Following is the opinion of the author. I have never met anyone who was cured of CD, I would not personally take communion with a gluten wafer anymore than I would eat the Sacred Buffalo stew at the Native American retreats I used to go to. I choose to believe in the possibility of healing through faith. I also believe in the possiblity of healing through science. This is not intended to insult or try to change the opinion of others who require proof in written form. It is my opinion.
I have to say that I BELIEVE that if one had a strong enough faith that they could take communion with a non-GF wafer and not be glutened. I also believe that if one had enough faith they could cure any illness that they have. Unfortunately I have Known many people of many different religions with a lot more faith then I have and none of them have been able to overcome the obstacles we place in ourselves to reach that level of healing through faith. I have met Ministers, Buddists and Shamans who could channel the healing power of God through them to heal others but can't heal themselves.
I also have to say that I believe that we are a lot more judgemental with each other than God is about this subject and that we are all going to be really surprised when we stand before God and realize that faith was a lot more simple than organized religions would like us to believe. That however is a whole other subject and I don't want to go there and start that one.
Edit, I do have to add that because I don't belong to any specific organized religion (I was raised Baptist) that I have frequently been judged, criticized and condemened because of my beliefs by people who are much better Church goers than I am. I however acknowlege and accept their right to believe in God in whatever manner is right for them. God is about love, its that simple. |
_________________
The Love we withhold is the pain that we carry.
Nicki
B-Day: January 18
DX: October 2005 |
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NickisDragon
Joined: 06 Oct 2005
Posts: 330
Location: S.E. Michigan
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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[
I have to say that I BELIEVE that if one had a strong enough faith that they could take communion with a non-GF wafer and not be glutened. I also believe that if one had enough faith they could cure any illness that they have. Unfortunately I have Known many people of many different religions with a lot more faith then I have and none of them have been able to overcome the obstacles we place in ourselves to reach that level of healing through faith. I have met Ministers, Buddists and Shamans who could channel the healing power of God through them to heal others but can't heal themselves.
I also have to say that I believe that we are a lot more judgemental with each other than God is
Since we never see the "BIG PICTURE" until we've crossed over to a "Better Place" we have no understanding of WHY people experience the illnesses, OR faiths, or obstacles that they do. Some souls need those things to learn "cause and effect", some to advance their degree of learning, (college level courses, if you will ), and some souls carry the burdens of others in the service of love. Therefore, making judgements without all the pertinent information is less than useless, a total waste of time, and serves no good purpose. Our time would be better spent blessing and appreciating ALL who touch our lives--pleasantly or unpleasantly because "even a stone can be a teacher" and we're all on this learning curve. Namaste!
_________________
The Love we withhold is the pain that we carry.
Nicki
B-Day: January 18
DX: October 2005 |
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Fidissimus
Joined: 17 Mar 2006
Posts: 1411
Location: Portland, OR.
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| Posted: Thu May 04, 2006 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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As a practicing Catholic I spoke with my priest on the matter and he said that the wine was both body and blood, so you can forgo the wafer entirely, have some wine and still receive full communion. Just remember to go to confession first so you're in a state of grace...
And actually Sarah while I think your approach was a bit tactless, you bring up some interesting questions of faith vs. science and how can that be rectified, or should it be, in our modern age? Obviously not an appropriate topic for this board but it gave me pause for thought and a small chuckle. There is hardly a chance of getting drunk, the ritual involves a sip of blessed wine, not a couple of bottles!
_________________
Cheers!
Jenn
GF BD: Feb. 2001
Free of wheat, barley, rye, oats, rice, dairy, eggs, almonds, pineapple and brewers yeast.
http://graindamaged.blogspot.com/ |
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aklap
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 7818
Location: WI, USA
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| Posted: Fri May 05, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Fidissimus wrote: | | As a practicing Catholic I spoke with my priest on the matter and he said that the wine was both body and blood, so you can forgo the wafer entirely, have some wine and still receive full communion. |
While this is technically correct, it still does not change the fact that some may feel excluded. Does this require a shift in your thinking - sure - it's something we should be quite used to by now - but the feeling is still there. I have other comments, but I will not fuel this already volatile thread.
| Quote: | | There is hardly a chance of getting drunk, the ritual involves a sip of blessed wine, not a couple of bottles! |
Well,unless...you're my Mother. When she was growing up, her best friend's Dad was a minister (of our current church). One day they had the bright idea of getting into the communion wine.   
| Quote: | | Our time would be better spent blessing and appreciating ALL who touch our lives--pleasantly or unpleasantly because "even a stone can be a teacher" and we're all on this learning curve. Namaste! |
I love this Nicki! AMEN!!
_________________
Al
“We cannot all do great things, but we can do small things with great love.” Mother Teresa |
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Peach
Joined: 29 Jul 2005
Posts: 15
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 10:23 am Post subject: |
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Internet. Serious business.
It's an Internet forums, don't get worked up if someone makes fun of you. Not like you can just 'leave' the forum and surf somewhere else. I'm supposed to be the teenage girl here...
And the wafer thing. If someone with Celiac were to take a gluten wafer and expect to not get sick, then that's like jumping off a bridge and expecting your Higher Being to save you. It's testing God, expecting him to save you. (I'm going from my religion now, Christian, if you want to call it that) God said not to test his power, and taking gluten wafers is just like testing him. It's doing something you know is harmful and expecting you to be fine. That's like drinking and expecting not to get drunk. Or smoking and not expecting to get the side effects of lung cancer and being high. Or inhaling and expecting not to die or whatnot. Or having unprotected sex and expecting not to get an STD or pregnant. It's testing faith, for my religion, anyway.
But do what you want, just think a little and see it from a higher point of view instead of a human's.
I have no idea about other religions and what they say about things like that. But it's your life, do what you want.
_________________
~Peach~
peachy_tomboy@hotmail.com |
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Kathie
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 676
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And the wafer thing. If someone with Celiac were to take a gluten wafer and expect to not get sick, then that's like jumping off a bridge and expecting your Higher Being to save you. It's testing God, expecting him to save you |
This reminded me of when I was in high school there was a girl who found God and wandered around town, unemployed, expecting God to take care of her. We tried to point out to her that God helps those who help themselves, but to no avail. I wonder whatever happened to her?!
| Quote: | | Therefore, making judgements without all the pertinent information is less than useless, a total waste of time, and serves no good purpose. Our time would be better spent blessing and appreciating ALL who touch our lives--pleasantly or unpleasantly because "even a stone can be a teacher" and we're all on this learning curve. Namaste! |
A very wise teacher once told me that we don't have to like what a person does or agree with them, we don't even have to love them for who they are, we just have to recognize that everyone was created by God, acknowledge and love the spark of God that created them and resides within them (even if its hidden) and then let them go on their way. Mitakuye Oyasin! (We are all related)
_________________
CD by Biopsy 3/25/88 |
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